While black ops don't actually need a buff, they do need more than one role for the amount of training put into getting in one.

I have suggested before to make them able to fit a cov ops cloak. But when fitted with one, the jump drive is offlined. This way you can have an offensive small fleet role for it or a support for large fleet role depending on your play style.

Not a buff. Not a nerf. Just a broadening of the usefulness of an expensive, skill intensive ship and more in line with what the ship name suggests it's role should be.

Mr Epeen

ready back to my first post in this topic and click on the link saying 784 days. It redirects u back to the old assembly hall i was running for over 2 yrs. Take a look in there and u will see plenty of evedence of stuff that need changin......

Tell me where i can find a place where i can insta jump my entire fleet from my main staging point into a cyno jammed system (=sov syetm) full of hostiles without bringing atleast 2 cov op haulers to carry fuel..... Tell me just 1 such a place......

I dont even think u have a qlue about how much fuel each ship uses, let me give u some number out my head (more numbers in link in my forst post). Your BO fuel bay can carry 6666 units of fuel. 1 recon uses 2300 - 2500 of fuel to bridge 4,5 ly. A bomber takes 350 units a BO to jump is 288 (not sure out my head). The bridging fuel part is fail. The systems that lay more than 4.5 ly out of eachother messes everything up. To make them currently usefull by just a slight mark is a rule that they can alwasy jump 1 system whatever the range beween those 2 points it, costing max 4,5ly jump fuel. Bottle next choke point are often camped, are u willing to travel trough there with a handfull of battleships that are sitting dicks jumping torugh normal gates? (1b isk ships)

Analyze
Propose
Fix

The frist 2 things i can do.... the third one is upto CCP..... i wonder where trolling is in that list

PS: plenty of solutions in my old topix (cant link due on work)

look mommy, daddy plays with his joystick can i play too??

Because some ppl find things so awesome that they are willing to waste alot of effort on good gank kills. Burn Eden has fixed supply lines with alts for fule, they use the same points over and over once they are settle in the area. On this way u reduce the effort and trouble. Thats why u almost only find them doing it. For the avarage people (BE is not avarage) its too much hassle.

edit: whos the alt nooby hiding behind alts trolling about stuff he has no clue about and too lazy to check facts yourselve to troll,.. even when u get told where it is.

You have no idea what you are talking about... this post is so bad that I can tell you have never flown one.

First, the ship has less of a tank than the T1 version. This was intentionally done by CCP because they planned to buff the ship earlier, admitting outright it was pre-nerfed. The problem was that they never finished balancing the ship!

The bridging distance is so small that often it cannot get into those hostile systems to remove the jammers. And even if done, it's easier (and cheaper) to just pound a conventional fleet in there.

The redeemer is fine but the rest of the ships are useful only as a ganking, bridging platform sitting inside a POS. They are no able to complete their role as heavy hitters.

So, the following needs to be done (not all but at least SOME of these ideas:

1) increase ly range
2) decrease bridging fuel costs by 75%
3) increase resists to T2 levels
4) add covops cloak option if not number 4.


If the ship is supposed to jump to a hostile POS and take out the jammer, it should be able to tank the freaking POS guns.

Black ops ships have the potential to give Med and small alliance/corps the fun of hot dropping with out the need of a titan.

As the ship is now, you need to fit it with cargo expanders in the lows just so you have enough fuel to jump med sized fleets which essentially gimps the armor tanking ships, like the sin.

What i would like to see with this ship is a clear defined role with the ability to use it. If its meant to be a counter to cyno jammers, give it a fuel bay so it can jump the amount of ships needed to do a raid on a cyno jammer.

If the ship is meant as a force multiplier to other black ops ships once bridged, make it so where the ship can be used in combat after it has jumped the cov ops fleet.

If its meant to complement a transport ship and used as a logistical augmenter, than increase the jump range so there is a real benefit to invest all that training time into flying the ship.

This class of ship is simply broken and needs to either be removed or refocused. period!

They are about 600m, fitted about the same as the average T3.

A T3 can jump via BO portal
A T3 can warp cloaked and still have better resists than a BO BS
A T3 is more agile and able to take out more targets than a BS fleet
A T3 can also be nullified making them even better killers

There is nothing a BO BS can do that a T3 can't do better. Currently a BO BS is only used to portal and nothing else. If that is the role, just make a T2 noctis hull and remove al lthe black ops from the game.

Otherwise they are worthless, useless show of bling. Why bring a redeemer when you can bridge 5 SB and recons at a fraction of the cost, same DPS, and able to warp cloaked?

I was in DNS for a couple years. The logistics in doing black ops drops is well beyond your simple definition. You have to being fuel of every type. A fleet of 10-15 will drain the bay of the BO BS in a single bridge, you have to fill it with cargo expanders otherwise and that's ALL you can fit. If you wanted to do a sustained harassment as you call it... say several drops over the course of a few days, you need to anchor cans or have haulers continually bringing in fuel.

You have ZERO idea on what you're talking about. It is not that simple. Just stop because you're making yourself look even worse. First you use BE as an example, and now you think it's simply "having fuel on standby" without even understanding the needs.

Just stop...

You don't have a damn clue what you're talking about. The redeemer is a decent ship but the ONLY one. BE also uses billion ISK fittings, including on their nightmares or machs. They also have much more going on behind the scenes than a roaming gang of Redeemers. You are truely simple minded.

By the way, DNS ganked BE's black ops gang... with stealth bombers. BE do well because of the tactics they use, not the ships. But you don't know that. You're in an NPC corp. You have no idea how they operate jsut what others have told you. You don't know about offgrid boosting, the neutral alts used in conjunction... jesus why am I even trying to answer this.






You're goddamn stupid, plain and simple.

You realize I was in DNS, right? DNS is not BE you mongoloid.


They CAN be used. They are pigs. filled with cargo expanders and used to bridge fleets. Sure, you can use them in PVP but they will die, even to a T1 version of themselves. The Redeemer is the least of the broken, in that it can almost do an effective job.

But then ask, why is the Widow, Sin, and Panther ignored?

And why don't YOU fly them? Of wait, you are talking out of your ass. Do you even own a black ops, let alone flown with a black ops fleet?

I understand your lack of comprehension.

BO were originally intended to use covert cyno fields and take down a jammer in addition to harassment "behind enemy lines."

Funny, I can't find Andrea Roche on any killboard. You can't even post with your main, so I'm calling your bluff.

Go ahead and tell yourself how black ops BS are just fine, especially when last check there were less than 500 of them in people's hangers (last official count was ~250 but I'm rounding up with optimistic thinking).

Well. Since you are so sure Black ops are fine as they are, how about you come up with some exsamples of where YOU have used black ops to great effect including some killbord battlr reports and such, instead of using an alt to argue your point and using a burden enden as pretty much then only corp you can come up with using black ops with success.

And I think most., and in particular those that have been their victims, can agree on that Burn eden is not you every day typical averange greifer corp.

So how about it.. proof your points with your own experinces instead of pretending that you are the cool allknowing black ops pilot.

Taking advice on Black Ops from someone in SWA? LOL.

probably not but if they adjust that 1 skill - it shouldn't be difficult to help with the fuel issues. Tweaking ships tank - again, not a major project portion and they could get some fixes rolled out fairly easily.

The only reason NOT to do anything is the whine factor of those who want these things powered over the top and there are a few of them. As such, it's safer for CCP not to touch the ship vs putting in any fixes to them at all. Anything they did that comes up shy of a virtual "god mode" would be too little and cause more anger and that's what they're trying to avoid.

Bummer IMO - I'd really like the Sin fixed up a bit. It's one of the ships I can fly soon (Sin and Panther) and I'd love it if the thing wasn't as lame as it appears right now.

A bit more tank - a touch less fuel use... Not a lot to ask for but not enough for many plays so, I agree; I don't think they'll touch these.

Fact, more ppl fly titans than black opsGǪ it has been stated a few times on quen ship snapshots, it that because the titan is so cheap or because BO bridging sucks?

I'm not waiting for a change. I'm just calling out snarky coward alts as irrelevant.

I'm just gonna keep bumping this until I get a Reply from a DEV!

You have only proven that you are a troll, really, so I'm not feeding you. If they were as OP as seemingly only you believes, then CCP can comment as such and at least tell us they won't be buffed. Even if you are right, CCP could be decent enough to say so. You, however, do not speak for CCP, so don't talk like it.

Besides, your constant whining only continues to bump the thread, so please, by all means, continue.

I would love to see some changes for sure...

One thing is the Black OPS battleships themself and another is the current black ops cyno mechanics.
- The battleships themself doesn't see much action apart from very large hotdrops.
- Hotdrops are a little bit too easy to get away with and rarely promotes a fight.

The black ops battleship are unattractive to most people because:
- They cost a fortune
- They are fragile
- They cannot be fully utilized in hi-sec

Black OPS hotdropping is a bit too easy because:
- Agressor usually has full control of wether to engage or not
- If things go wrong every ship can cloak up

I would recommend lowering build cost of black ops battleships to 2/3 of the current prices.
I would recommend increasing the tank on black ops battleships but make them slower.
I would recommend having all races having a dps/tank theme and leave Ewar for recons.
I would recommend putting a limit on the number of ships 1 black ops battleship can bridge pr time.
I would recommend a small delay on ships being cynoed in giving targets a chance to react.
I would recommend a small delay on targeting when making a hotdrop.

Pinky

This is a slightly sore topic as I've got a pair of Widows sitting in low-sec which have proved to
be a less than effective investment.

I'm not currently active but over a three year period my friends and I made Aeschee and its
surroundings a hub of piracy.

As a pirate fleet in low-sec, you are typically looking to keep eyes on local gates
with a view to producing a surprise for enemy forces that you can deal with.

The Black-OPs fleet jump gave that possibility but the practicality did
not add up because of their short range and high fuel cost. It was simply
more effective to manouever fleets through the normal
jump network,

-- Haze